Til að reyna setja tölur við það sem menn ættu að vera leita eftir þegar
kemur að því að velja túrbínur sem er ekki hægt að fletta þægilega á garrett síðunni þá er hérna einfaldur listi upplýsinga yfir það sem menn geta stuðst við .
Áður enn menn byrja spyrja, þá er best að lesa þennan þráð.
http://www.bmwkraftur.is/spjall/viewtopic.php?t=31377
Og athuga alla linkanna sem ég setti í fyrsta póstinn.
Þetta er svo að ég geti póstað þessum þræði með smá tæknitali.
Ef menn skilja það ekki þá bara kíkja í þráðinn og linkanna þeir útskýra það.
Holset túrbínurnar eru ekkert sérlega littlar, þar sem að þær eru allar hannaðar til að fæða ágætlega stórar dísel vélar, þessar vélar snúast oft meira enn helmingi hægar enn bensínvélar sem þýðir að til að ná að búa til afl þá þarf að auka togið alveg svakalega.
Einfaldlega þarf tvöfalt meira tog á 2500rpm heldur enn 5000rpm til að framleiða sömu hestöfl. Þetta þýðir að það er ágætis þumalputta regla að skoða hvaða hestöfl vélin sem túrbínan koma af var að skila og við hvaða boost.
Dæmi mjög mikil einföldun enn útskýrir þumalputta regluna
Holset HX35W af 5.9L Dodge Ram kemur 215hp@2600rpm við 21-23psi boost. Þetta er 434lb´s af togi til að framkvæma svona power.
Þannig að ef við notum svona túrbínu á bensín vél og tvöföldum snúninganna þá er hægt að fá sama tog enn tvöfalt afl.
Eða 430hö við 5200rpm. Þetta er 1.5-1.6bar boost btw.
Þetta dæmi er á engann hátt lýsandi fyrir að skrúfa eina svona beint á hvaða bensín vél sem er. Enn ef maður er ekki með compressor map fyrir compressorinn þá er þetta leiðandi.
Vegna þess að þær eru stórar þá byrjum við á HX35 með 12cm^2 afgashúsi sem kemur á Dodge Ram 5.9L 215hp@2600rpm og 440lbs@1600rpm.
Þessari myndi ég mæla með fyrir flest alla til að runna allt að 400-450hö.
Það þarf alveg ágæt magn af boosti , þ.e Það sem telst mikið í BMW heiminum allaveganna, þetta er um og yfir 22psi boost cirka sem þarf. Það sem er gott við þessa er að hún leyfir mjög vítt afl svið, semsagt maður getur þægilega runnað hana lullandi frá 270hö og í þetta mark, þannig að hún hentar þegar maður hefur frekar óákveðið takmark og vill geta stillt aflið oft.
Tengdir hluti.
12cm afgashúsið er takmarkið á túrbínunni fyrir þetta afl á M20B25 og M50B25.
stærri HX35 afgashús myndu leyfa samskonar afl við aðeins minna boost og minni bakþrýsting, það sem þarf þá á móti að hafa er túrbó grein sem aðskilur púlsanna sem berjast á spaðanna til að viðhalda viðbragði, með 12cm húsi er það ekki alveg jafn mikilvægt enn ef menn hafa ráð að þá er svoleiðis útfærsla bara til þess að gera hlutina betri uppá viðbragð og lágann boost þröskuld.
Á ALLAR BMW vélar sem komu original 200hö mæli ég með HX40 sem byrjunarreit.
í staðinn fyrir það að ég sé að þýða nú þegar fáanlegar upplýsingar yfir á íslensku sem myndi taka ótrúlega langann tíma þá sleppi ég því bara og pósta quite´s frá dsmtuners.com spjallinu þar sem menn virðast vera búnir að testa þær í gegn,
Þetta er það helsta sem ég sé í þessum þráðum til að nefna .
DSM Tuners Holset Results þráðurinn
Dsm-onster wrote:
Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
HX35:
The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.
The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.
HY35:
The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.
H1C/WH1C:
In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.
I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.
HX35-40 hybrid:
Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.
HX40:
The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.
The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.
H1E/WH1E:
The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.
The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.
HX52:
This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.
Misc.:
* Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.
* The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.
* Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.
* They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.
* There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.
* The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.
r10performance wrote:
Going back a few years, but I ran a best of 11.08 @ 128 on the HX40 6 bladed in the DSM bolt-on housing. 32-33 psi, very conservative timing (maybe 12-13 degrees peak), high 11-low 12 AFRs, C16. Here's a mod list at the time:
built 6 bolt, 2.0, ross/eagle 8.5:1
stock head, ARPs, FP2s, JMFab SMIM
24" x 12" x 3.5" FMIC w/2.5" piping & Tial BOV
HX40pro with bullseye bolt-on housing
Tial 40mm gate on ported EVO manifold
4" cold air inlet with filter in stock IC location
Fluidyne radiator
full 3" exhaust, EVO o2 housing
Supra pump, 950s, SX FPR, stock rail/feed/return lines
Built trans w/evo forks, 4 spider, upgraded synchros
ACT 2900 w/street disc and ACT street flywheel
AEM EMS, AEM UEGO wideband, 5bar MAP, AIT
Nitto 245/50 16 drag radials on RX7 wheels (probably cost 20whp!)
S&W 8pt cage, Corbeau seats, harnesses, full interior minus back seat
Ksport drag coilovers
Full weight, still had bumpers, power steering, heat
assault187 wrote:
Boost: 26-27 psi
Stock timing curve
JMF SMIM
HKS 272/272
GReddy type 24 FMIC w/2½" IC piping
2½" downpipe 3"DP back
8.3-1 ross pistons/ crower rods
Holset HX-40 PRO (6 blade)
DSM bolt on housing
Meth injection
427/350 untuned @ 10.xx AFRs
dsm-onster wrote:
I have Morphius' permission to post up some impressive results from a user who doesn't have the status to access this forum yet. Badman21. 653whp. 40psi with the HX40 with small BEP housing
Mod list copied straight from his private message:
2.3 stroker motor
eagle rods and weisco pistons 100mm 4g64 crank
hks 272 intake and exhaust cams
stock 2g head
ptt twin disc clutch
dogmisson from magnus motorsports
holset hx40m with .55ar
3inch downpipe into a 4inch exhaust
shearer fabrications t3 exhaust manifold
magnus motorsports intake manifold with q45 thottle body
slowboyracing intercooler
dual bosch 044 fuel pumps -8 fuel feed line
4 1600cc injectors
wolf ems standalone system tuned by waynespeed
gorbs88 wrote:
Well got back from the dyno, was a terrible day as usual when you want things to work out!
Left here all ready running 34-35psi and got to the dyno and boost was 26-27 PSI!!!! somehow developed a HUGE leak along the last day or two! I tryed to turn it up and started to blow hot air and eventually maxed out the boost controller as the turbo was trying to do all i could.
485.2 Hp
429.9 Tq
I didnt have enough tools to do a leak test with me so i just packed up and went home.
BTW this was done on a MUSTANG dyno.
As i have mentioned before had a big leak so boost on this run was around 30 psi or so.
hx-40 6 blade
t-3 .70 A/R
DNP tube manny
272 cams
STOCK motor
STOCK intake
STOCK TB
3 inch exhaust
M15 meth injection
AVE gas
Þótt þeir séu að runna mega boost þá virka þessar túrbínur líka jafn vel hestaflega séð fyrir lægra boost og stærri vélar.
Þessar Holset HX35,40,50,55 eru allar sambærilegar við KKK túrbínur sem hafa samskonar compressor hús og hjólastærðir. þ.e líta svona út
Og með splituðum inngangi í túrbínu afgashúsið.
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